Posts Tagged ‘preterism’

15 Sep

Giveaway: 2 DVDs of ‘Before Jerusalem Fell’

Posted by tyrellh in Giveaway. Tagged: , , , , , .

This week I am happy to be giving away 2 DVD’s. The DVD is called ‘Before Jerusalem Fell’. It is a DVD lecture based on the doctoral dissertation of Dr. Kenneth Gentry. Now a few comments, if you are thinking DVD so visuals, so exciting, explosions and car chases, then stop thinking that, think doctoral dissertation put in a better way than just reading the boring document.

Another thing to note is that this DVD presents a very specific eschatological view, namely ‘partial preterism’ (not ‘full preterism’ which is a heresy and outside of the realm of orthodox Christianity). I am not an advocate of the view of ‘partial preterism’ when it comes to the book of Revelation, I am not fully convinced by this DVD, or some of the other things I have read, however, for those who are serious about thinking through their eschatology and opening their mind to other perspectives regarding the book of Revelation this is a must see. I read the book and it helped me think through many issues and come to a better thought through position regarding the ‘end times’. It is definitely good for the serious student of the Bible. N.B:If you are not very familiar with the ‘end times’ view of your church I would recommend you first get some good reading on your church’s position and feel comfortable that you understand it well before you watch this.

On the DVD back it says, “In this in-depth lecture, Dr. Gentry presents a helpful summary of his doctoral dissertation on Revelation’s date. He not only highlights fascinating evidence from ancient writers, but from Revelation’s text itself. He presents a concise, clear, and compelling case for a pre-AD 70 composition. Once he points out the clues in the text, a flood of light illuminates the story: John was writing Revelation as a prophetic warning of Jerusalem’s coming destruction, which ended the old covenant economy and secured the new covenant church a place in history. Once we hear the evidence, Revelation will become for us truly a revelation. We will experience as never before Revelation’s blessing : “Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy” (Rev 1:3).”

So what are you waiting for enter now!

This giveaway runs from today till the 22 September at 12pm, only South African residents are eligible to enter (sorry to my overseas brothers and sisters) and you can only enter once. To enter, simply fill in the form below, and answer the question. To increase your chances of winning click like on this post (bottom left corner) or mention this giveaway on your facebook status or on a tweet, if you have not yet subscribed to this blog, subscribing by adding your email address on the right will also give you an extra entry.

Thanks to Augustine Bookroom for sponsoring this giveway

31 May

Matthew 24:34 – The Olivet Discourse continued (Part 2)

Posted by tyrellh in Christianity, Doctrine, Religion. Tagged: , , , , , , .

Alas, I approach the text which makes preterists squeal with glee and Pre-mil’s faint with the malady of exegetical psychosis. Or perhaps I am being  a tad melodramatic. I am referring to the ‘this generation’ of Matthew 24v34.  I now endeavour to interpret this statement: “Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things happen” (Matthew 24:34).

Now, it’s important to note that preterists do not interpret consistently…. If we use the term ‘literal interpretation’ in a South African context. Since they wish to interpret ‘this generation’ literally’ but not verse 30; which talks about the confusedphysical Christ coming on the clouds of heaven with great glory. Either one is figurative, and the other literal or visa versa. However, should we use the phrase ‘naturally’ (in USA ‘literally’) we may then have a meaningful discussion.

Now either ‘the clouds of heaven with glory’ or ‘this generation’ must have a natural meaning which allows for the harmony of Scripture (a vital hermeneutical principle). I think that the argument that ‘clouds of heaven with glory’ have another meaning besides what it appears to mean to modern audiences is a weak one, a discussion which I shall go into another time (No, I don’t ignore that this is prophetic/apocalyptic literature). However, I think there is interesting evidence to suggest that ‘this generation’ has another natural meaning.

Christ starts off verse 34 by saying “Truly I tell you”, which suggests that what He is about to say has special significance. Then comes those words ‘this generation’, which will not pass away until all the things Christ has been speaking about occur. Now some would say this refers to the fall of Jerusalem, when Christ would reappear to usher in the end of the world (age). However this appears to be a bad interpretation of these words since two sentences later He says that He doesn’t know when these things will occur (v36).

What seems more reasonable is to say that ‘all these things’ refers to the events of v4-28, but this does not mean Christ’s coming would happen immediately after. Calvin says, “Christ uses a universal term, but does not apply His words in general to all the afflictions of the Church, but simply teaches that in one generation events would establish all He has said” (Book 3; pg 97). Problem with this is, I am not sure why is shouldn’t include everything up to v31.

So here my long rant about ‘natural’ interpretation comes in. What if ‘this generation’ has another meaning? Notice how this term is used in the Old Testament to describe a type of person:

“The Generation of the righteous” Ps 14:5

“The generation of those who seek Him” Ps 24:6

Ah! Tyrell, but these are all verses referring to those who are good. Well let’s look further….

“Guard us from this generation” Ps 12:7

“The generation of His wrath” Jer 7:29

If this is the meaning, then Jesus is saying ‘this generation, this type of person, will not cease until His words are fulfilled. It may be relevant to now notice Christ’s words earlier (23v35) when He said to the people whom He was speaking to “you killed Zechariah”, such a statement shows the unity of the ‘race/generation’ through the years.

Mounce points to the nature of multiple fulfillments: He shows that the ‘abomination of desolation’ was fulfilled by the antiochus-epiphanesdesecration of Antiochus Epiphanes, and another by the destruction of Jerusalem by the Roman armies . “In a similar way, the events of the immediate period leading up to the destruction of Jerusalem portend a greater and more universal judgement at the end of the time.” Thus the text would says ‘right up till all these things happen there will be people of this type, who rejected Christ while He lived on earth’

So either way, the decision must be made, but it must be known, even if ‘this generation’ meant the generation alive at the time of Christ, that need not mean that the distress must end in Christ’s time, but ‘all these things’ must occur in that time, the ‘second coming’ itself, only occurring when the Father knows it will (v36), thus ending the distress.

12 May

Matthew 24:1-3 – Olivet Discourse continued… (Part 1)

Posted by tyrellh in Christianity, Doctrine, Religion. Tagged: , , , , , , , , , .

Mathew 24’s first two verses begin by describing a comment Jesus made about the incredible stones with which theLooking at the Temple from the Mount of Olives temple was made, this comment then triggered the rest of the discourse. The disciples probably thought that Christ would be impressed, as they were, by the beautiful stones, but instead He goes on to predict that this temple they admired so much was to be destroyed- Christ invites them to consider ‘all these things’  and then went on to predict the total destruction of the entire temple. The point of the discourse is to explain how these believers should continue to live godly lives amidst the troubles to come.

My intention is not to focus on the first two verses, except for my above comments. The verse which interests me and has much significance with regard to eschatology is verse 3, “As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. ‘Tell us,’ they said, ’’when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age’.(NASB)”

Both Matthew and Mark tell us that Jesus was seated on the mountain; Mark says that they were opposite the temple. Most likely the view helped remind the Disciples of Christ’s words (there is a break between verse 1-2 and verse 3).  Now what I believe occurs in this text, is that the disciples ask Jesus two questions. The time when all this would happen, and what the sign of your coming and of the consummation of the age would be. It appears the disciples thought these two events to be closely connected.

Just to comment on the word ‘coming’ in ‘sign of your coming’. The word παρουσια (coming), is found four times in Matthew (v27, 37 and 39) and nowhere else in the Gospels. The term has the idea of ‘being present, presence’[i] and thus ‘coming’. The Technical Use of the Terms in Hellenic Greek was for the visit of a ruler[ii], and it becomes the usual word in the epistles for the ‘coming’ of Jesus at the end of the age. Important to note, the other Gospels have the question about ‘when these things will be’ but only Matthew refers to Jesus’ coming.

Interestingly the phrase, consummation of the age is found five times in Matthew (13:39, 16:27, 24:31, 25:31) with age being the correct translation as opposed to world.

Its the end of the world!!!I don’t think we should be to suspicious regarding the connection of the two questions in the mind of the disciples, as Leo Morris points out, “ …. It was an age when all sorts of speculations about the Last Things were in vogue…[iii]” Something like the destruction of the temple would surely bring up issues of Last Things.

We know that Christ’s prediction in 24:1-2 was fulfilled in A.D. 70 when the Romans attacked Jerusalem and destroyed the temple. However, there are some interesting contrasts in the chapter which also suggest two questions. For example:

Firstly in verses 3-34 Jesus talks about various sign, and even tells the disciples to pay close attention to the so that they would know how to respond to them (v6, 14, 15-18, 23, 29, 32). Furthermore v34 says that these events will occur within ‘this generation’[iv]. In distinction to this Jesus specifically says that no one knows when this will occur (V36, 42, 44). Logically two events must be spoken of if one response is to flee the city (v16) and the other response is to continue to serve faithfully (v46). In addition it would be odd to say that a number of signs suggest the nearness of the events, and that they should cause some kind of action (v14, 16, 33), and at the same time say that the ‘day and hour’ no one knows, not even the Son of God, or the angels. Is the point of this so that the disciples can know the week or month, but not the specific day or week? I would say that this is an unnatural reading of Just smooth over the differencesthe text, a way of reading which, as one author puts it, ‘smooths over huge differences between the relative ease with which the occurrences if the two events can be predicted’.

I would love to spend more time here, but this is enough for now. Many questions are still unanswered, but this is at least the beginning of my dealing with verse 3.

[i] Analytical Lexicon of the Greek New Testament

[ii] The Theological Dictionary of the New Testament

[iii] Morris, The Gospel According to Matthew. PNTC. Pg 596.

[iv] I am open to the possibility that this is not to be taken as referring to the generation of Jesus’ audience, but my beginning point will be to assume as much, till a study of this text is made later in this series.

7 May

The Olivet Discourse – Matthew 24

Posted by tyrellh in Christianity, Doctrine. Tagged: , , , , , , , , , .

It has been on my mind for awhile to deal with the whole issue of eschatology, and to be honest, as I approached the issue, I began to realize how little I understand. The more I read various views (which initially seemed rather convincing) the more I began to realize that none really answers all the questions satisfyingly. So although I have gained a greater appreciation of the various view’s attempts to harmonize the Scriptures and their theology, I believe Can't get across so easyI have been plunged into an ocean to vast to traverse. So without going into the idea that Eschatology’s seemingly illusive nature might have something to teach us (perhaps God did not intent the issue to be clear), allow me to begin my public processing of the issue.

I intent to, over the next bit of time, go over these issues, starting as far away and moving inwards with relevant source material, today starting a commentary of Matthew 24, which I believe to be the furtherest yet still specific point from which to broach the subject at hand. I must say, some of my thoughts have been provoked by a good friend’s honest and earnest approach to this subject.

So without further chit-chat: My introduction to the Olivet discourse (Matthew 24)

This is one of the last major teachings Christ gives His disciples, and deals mostly with judgment and the behavior expected of a Christian during this time of judgment. The problem in this text (which we will face) is that some of what Jesus says refers to the destruction of Jerusalem, and some of what He says refers to His coming at the end of the age (or so I will argue). As one commentator points out, the first coming of the Messiah to suffer was hard to conceive, thus we should not doubt that since He came literally to suffer, He will also literally come in person as well, to reign.

Jerusalem A.D 70We may also say that there is a unity between the two judgements in mind (of Jerusalem and at the end of the age) in a theological sense, and thus some of what Jesus says may apply to both. The first of these judgements, which involves the destruction of Jerusalem, is a result of the rejection of His earthly ministry by the Jewish people. The second judgement is about what will follow the preaching of the gospel to the world. However I am cautious to approach these chapters with the assumption that everything in it applies to only one of these judgements (scholars seem to vary vastly on which part applies to which).

The mixing of prophecies leading up to the events of A.D. 70 and those which apply to the end of the age make this a difficult passage to interpret. Matthew also shares much in this passage with Mark and Luke, yet also has large variations.

Some commentators (and dear friends I have) understand the entire discourse to refer to a single event. They would End of the agesay that Jesus is excepting His return within a few years, and that the judgment of Jerusalem is but a part of the judgment on the whole world. However, the language used appears against this: As opposed to teaching that He would be coming soon in glory, Christ appears to be discouraging this idea (v6, 8, 14 and 23-28). Furthermore we should not forget the fact that He said He did not know the date of His return (v36). If He did not know it, how could he affirm so confidently that it would happen within a few years?

10 Dec

A Friendly Discussion on Preterism (Part 2.1)

Posted by tyrellh in Christianity, Devotional. Tagged: , , , .

The Time Texts: The Crux of Preterism

R.C. Sproul says that “the central thesis . . . of all preterists is that the New Testament’s time frame references with respect to the parousia point to a fulfillment within the lifetime of at least some of Jesus’ disciples.[i]” The majority of preterist books I have come across devote much of their argument to these “time texts”, and the interpretation of them makes it necessary for what was prophesied in the N.T. eschatological texts to have a first century fulfillment. If we can show that these texts are better understood within the futurist understanding, preterism as a system will have lost much of its support. To begin the challenge I will address the two prominent “time frame” references, and why preterists fail to properly interpret these texts. The first I will discuss in this paper, and the next in the following article.

After declaring the birth pangs, the hard labor of tribulation, and the coming of the Son of Man, Jesus declares in Matthew 24:34, “Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.” With regards to this text, I had a dear friend recently say, “I’m just saying what I read in the passage”. Listen to popular preterist proponent Gary Demar’s discussion on “this generation:”

The texts that govern the timing of the Olivet Discourse prophecy – Matthew 23:36 and Matthew 24:34 – makemount-of-olives it clear that Jesus was speaking of the events leading up to and including the fall of Jerusalem in A.D. 70 . . . If people fail to recognize the timing of these events set by Scripture and the historical context of Jesus’ words, they will always be led astray by those who keep insisting that it’s our generation that living in the end times.[ii]

Preterists regard their interpretation of “this generation” in the Olivet Discourse as the undefeatable Goliath of their system. However, is their interpretation the most persuasive given the usage and context of the term in Matthew’s Gospel? I don’t think so. Remember when we interpret a word/phrase, we need to go and see how the author uses that phrase elsewhere, to get a better understanding. The preterist is using the historical-grammatical hermeneutical principle of ‘Reading carefully and normally’ to come to their understanding, however they are ignoring two other principles which are: “Context determines meaning’ (in this case the book of Matthew) and ‘Word Study’.

The classic futurist interpretation is that this verse speaks of a future generation, or time. The classic preterist interpretation is that this verse speaks of a past generation, or time. I think that both of those views fail to take into account a number of vital interpretational factors.

How does Matthew use the phrase “this generation”? Is that a reference to a time frame, say 40-80 years? Surly this would be my conclusion if my only interpretational principle was to read ‘normally and carefully’(note that I don’t think preterists apply this same principle in a few verses time, since ‘suddenly the coming on the clouds’ is all cryptic and metaphorical to them, but I will deal with this issue in a later paper). I don’t think that this is a reference to time at all.

Rather than quantitative (time on earth), it is a qualitative use of the phrase (describing people with specific spiritual characteristics). The phrase ‘this generation’ is being used in a critical sense towards a group of people, namely, the Israelites who rejected the Messiah.

Wailing WallIf we understand this term as descriptive of those in ethnic Israel who reject Messiah (which has continued since the first century) not only are we within the bounds of the usage of “this generation” in Matthew, but this interpretation also fits best with both the immediate context and the whole of Scripture. (I am in the process of writing an article which addresses this Matthews use of this phrase and the Jewish understanding of ‘Corporate Solidarity’)

The expectation of salvation and restoration of ethnic Israel runs through Bible. It’s a common theme in the Old Testament (Ezekiel 36:22-38), right after the resurrection of Jesus (Acts 1:6-8), and in Paul’s teachings. The Apostle writes, “For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in” (Romans 11:25). The theme of the restoration of Israel is important in the Olivet Discourse. Just before the Discourse in Matthew, Jesus announces to “this generation”: “For I say to you, from now on you will not see Me until you say, Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’” (Matthew 23:39 emphasis added).

“This generation” will pass away, but this has not yet happened as there are still unbelieving Israelites. But a time will come when there will be no more unbelieving Israelites who reject Messiah. Those Israelites who remain will see their Messiah when they declare, by His sovereign grace, “Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.” The Lord will “come from Zion, He will remove ungodliness from Jacob” (Romans 11:26). But all the events Jesus outlined in the Olivet Discourse must be fulfilled before this occurs (cf. Zech 12).

This interpretation of “this generation” fits much better with Matthew’s usage, with the immediate context of the Olivet Discourse, and the whole counsel of God. So ironically, preterism’s chief text turns into solid support for both futurism and the coming restoration of ethnic Israel when Christ returns.

[i] R.C. Sproul, The Last Days According to Jesus, (Grand Rapids: Baker, 1998) 25.

[ii] Gary DeMar, End Times Fiction, (Nashville: Thomas Nelson, 2001) 114.

9 Dec

A Friendly Discussion on Preterism (Part 1)

Posted by tyrellh in Christianity. Tagged: , , , .

From the outset let me say that I have dear friends and brothers who are fellow Christians and labourers for Christ who hold to a preterist position. The point of my articles is to engage myself on these doctrines. However it is not to prove that my partial preterist friends are heretics, they are much loved brothers. Furthermore the aim of these articles will not be to cause division, an individual who divides over eschatology (which remains within orthodox Christianity) is a divisive man who should be avoided. I have and always will recommend people to partial preterist churches, even though I disagree with them on this issue.

This first article is just to give a brief breakdown of the terms used and the two camps.Following from this the doctrine will be engaged.

Normally when people talk about eschatology (doctrines of the end times) generally they are defined by their millennial position (premillennialism, amillennialism, or postmillennialism). However the question we will be discussing here is ‘Are you a preterist or a futurist?’ The argument is really about when the prophecies of the Olivet Discourse in the Gospels (Matthew 24-25, Mark 13, and Luke 21) and the book of Revelation are fulfilled.

The term preterism is from the Latin (praeter) which means “past.” Preterists suggest that the above mention eschatological texts are really prophesying the events of the destruction of the temple and the city of Jerusalem. Preterismpreterism-70ad says that, these prophecies were fulfilled in the Roman siege and destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. At this point let me say that there is a difference between partial and full preterism. Full (or hyper) preterists believe that all of the prophecies regarding the second coming of Christ, most significantly the “resurrection” of believers, were fulfilled in the first century. Partial preterists hold that the majority of what is declared in the book of Revelation (and the Olivet Discourse) was fulfilled in the first century, yet there remains a future judgment, a resurrection of the dead, and a bodily return of Christ. Preterists theologians which I will be engaging are only from the partial preterist camp. Generally, both partial preterists and futurists see full preterism as outside the realm of “the faith” in accordance with Paul’s teaching in 1 Corinthians 15.

Futurism (which I hold to) posits that the main eschatological texts of the New Testament prophesy about the events surrounding the return of Christ which will complete history. Many eschatological positions are within futurism, their common link is that the Olivet Discourse and book of Revelation will principally be fulfilled in the future.

To put it in a nut-shell: Preterism is the system of interpretation that understands the Olivet Discourse and the book of Revelation to primarily prophesy the events surrounding the fall of Jerusalem in A.D. 70, which is in the past.  Futurism is the system of interpretation that understands the Olivet Discourse and the book of Revelation to primarily prophesy the events surrounding and including the second coming of Christ, which is still in the future.

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